Good afternoon, looking for thoughts on my next actions. A long post but it gives context to the situation.
My last post was in 16/08/20 saying I’d just picked up my new C3 Aircross (ex demo, registered 2019 with 2600 miles on the clock). The car was paid outright at the time, a gift from my late mum.
Car had a loss of power 26/08/23 with a warning on the car saying about a clutch warning heat too high. Drove home very carefully, took to local garage 28/08/23. They looked over and couldn’t fully determine what the issues were taking advice from a Citroen approved service garage. Both garages did say it was most likely a wet belt issue which was a known issue for Citroens and Peugeot’s. I spoke with Citroen UK who said I needed to take it to a Citroen dealership. Could do this through RAC (aligned Citroen provider), asked if I could do AA as this is what I had. No had to be RAC as they would do a diagnostic test first. I paid for the diagnostic test, they couldn’t determine what it was either, take to the garage but deemed it undriveable. On 13/10/23 I paid for a company to take to the garage. Through this time I got on touch with Citroen Goodwill Team. Yesterday, I received a call from said team, they would pay 50% towards a new engine, due to a poor service history. The car is still with the dealership, they haven’t been able to provide a courtesy car in this time. I missed a service in 2021, I was out of action from May that year for about 6 months following two unexpected family deaths. I was due to arrange a service for September this year as I had booked AL. The car has done approx 32k miles.
Anyway, as yet I don’t have a cost for this but when I did an unexpected visit to the dealership on Wednesday I was told it could be between 6k - 12k. I’m thinking my options are:
1) Pay for the costs. (Where I’ll find the money I do not know)
2) Ask garage if they will purchase the car from me and I put that towards another car.
3) Take car back and get someone else to put an engine in and sell it.
I have GAP insurance but don’t think it covers the engine issue, have this for 4 years.
I can’t believe my car is the age it is and needs a complete new engine. I’ve not had an explanation of the cause.
Should I be contacting CEO from Citroen? Will it do any good?
Ultimately I’ve paid out £800 already for a car that needs a new engine which is sitting in a car dealership and has been for the last 60+ days. This has placed a huge amount of pressure on me personally and not least as a front line worker professionally.
Engine issue
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Juan Sheet
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:59 pm
From your description and without further technical info I can only ascertain that if they are saying a new engine is required, then the timing belt has failed and this has caused a possible engine blockage. These 1.2 petrol engines have the timing belt running in an oil bath. There are known issues with these in that some early timing belts can shred, where the debris can accumulate in the engine oil strainer and block the oil from circulating. This can cause issues with the braking vacuum, and ultimately, if allowed to go undiagnosed, the material can starve the engine of oil, resulting in the worst case scenario of catastrophic engine failure requiring a new engine. Normally you should be seeing the red engine oil light coming on before this happens.
The clutch temperature high message is not usually associated with this issue though. When I had this message, it was as a result of a failed wheel speed sensor, which causes the ESP / ABS system to deactivate. This causes multiple warning messages and the engine fan to remain on high speed. Replacing the affected wheel speed sensor corrects all these faults.
But back to the engine issue and assuming you have suffered a catastrophic engine failure, as a result of the timing belt tearing up, you only options are a replacement engine, as it really isn't practical or cost effective to strip the entire engine down to clean out all the debris and replace any damaged parts.
As for goodwill gestures, this will, as you are finding out, depend to a greater extent on the service history. This is important, because these vehicles are supposed to have the timing belt condition checked at each official service. If necessary it will be required to be replaced at earlier than the expected change which is 62k miles, then 125k miles after it has been replaced with a modified belt.
If the car has missed a service, then it won't have been checked and if the belt was starting to show damage or significant wear, it won't have been picked up. I appreciate personal circumstances probably overrode car servicing at the time, but this is why they are likely only offering a partial contribution towards replacement.
GAP insurance won't cover it, as that's really for if your car is written off, to cover the difference between the current insurance value and what you paid for the vehicle. As it's not been involved in an accident, it probably won't apply.
I can only suggest that you go back to Citroen and keep at them. Assuming timing belt caused the failure, the only thing you have is that is was not due to be changed until 62.5k miles and given your vehicle has done half this mileage, should not be expected to fail this early, regardless of the missed service (where the timing belt would not normally be replaced at this mileage), and of course the extenuating circumstances at the time.
As for replacement engine, Citroen should be able to provide you with a definitive cost so you can at least make an informed decision, as they know the price of a new and exchange engine and the book times for the labour to replace it.
Unfortunately I doubt whether the dealership would take the car off your hands as they just don't have the time to expend on this sort of thing and of course Citroen head office don't take cars back - it's all down to the dealerships.
The clutch temperature high message is not usually associated with this issue though. When I had this message, it was as a result of a failed wheel speed sensor, which causes the ESP / ABS system to deactivate. This causes multiple warning messages and the engine fan to remain on high speed. Replacing the affected wheel speed sensor corrects all these faults.
But back to the engine issue and assuming you have suffered a catastrophic engine failure, as a result of the timing belt tearing up, you only options are a replacement engine, as it really isn't practical or cost effective to strip the entire engine down to clean out all the debris and replace any damaged parts.
As for goodwill gestures, this will, as you are finding out, depend to a greater extent on the service history. This is important, because these vehicles are supposed to have the timing belt condition checked at each official service. If necessary it will be required to be replaced at earlier than the expected change which is 62k miles, then 125k miles after it has been replaced with a modified belt.
If the car has missed a service, then it won't have been checked and if the belt was starting to show damage or significant wear, it won't have been picked up. I appreciate personal circumstances probably overrode car servicing at the time, but this is why they are likely only offering a partial contribution towards replacement.
GAP insurance won't cover it, as that's really for if your car is written off, to cover the difference between the current insurance value and what you paid for the vehicle. As it's not been involved in an accident, it probably won't apply.
I can only suggest that you go back to Citroen and keep at them. Assuming timing belt caused the failure, the only thing you have is that is was not due to be changed until 62.5k miles and given your vehicle has done half this mileage, should not be expected to fail this early, regardless of the missed service (where the timing belt would not normally be replaced at this mileage), and of course the extenuating circumstances at the time.
As for replacement engine, Citroen should be able to provide you with a definitive cost so you can at least make an informed decision, as they know the price of a new and exchange engine and the book times for the labour to replace it.
Unfortunately I doubt whether the dealership would take the car off your hands as they just don't have the time to expend on this sort of thing and of course Citroen head office don't take cars back - it's all down to the dealerships.
Thank you very much Juan for your comprehensive reply. I’ve spoken to Citroen dealer today and waiting for the cost and a copy of the report. This will then allow me to look at what options may be open to me. I’ll update on this thread as it may help someone else.
Update - after 107 days of not having a car while it was in the garage and paying just under £4k (Citroen paid 50%) the Citroen garage returned my car yesterday. A brand new engine and part of the turbo found in the engine. Got in the car tonight to drive 45 minutes drive home. Amber spanner and red oil light. Iv’e contacted Citroen by email stating they will pick the car up tomorrow and sort it out. My husband had to pick me up. I’ve lost faith completely.
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Telfer. STR
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2023 3:57 pm
- Location: Inverkip Scotland
Completely understandable in you losing faith. Being without your car for 107 days and the car to fail on the journey home after repair is totally unacceptable. I think Citroen need to up their game on this whole issue by increasing their level of support to you.
On reading your posts, it has undermined my confidence in the product, as i have had an issue recently which led me contacting Citroen. I must say I am not very impressed with the assistance offered. We are not close to a Citroen dealer now, as Stillantis removed the the franchise from our nearest outlet 15 miles away. The nearest full Citroen dealership is now in Glasgow 25 miles away from home, and now find Citroen are not very well supported in our area at all.. Wondering if we have made a major mistake in purchasing a 1.2 C3 Aircross Shine, first registered in January last year.
On reading your posts, it has undermined my confidence in the product, as i have had an issue recently which led me contacting Citroen. I must say I am not very impressed with the assistance offered. We are not close to a Citroen dealer now, as Stillantis removed the the franchise from our nearest outlet 15 miles away. The nearest full Citroen dealership is now in Glasgow 25 miles away from home, and now find Citroen are not very well supported in our area at all.. Wondering if we have made a major mistake in purchasing a 1.2 C3 Aircross Shine, first registered in January last year.
